After seeing the Mirrors video, I do so want to just get up and glide. Jumping and such is nice, but I think the laid back style might be the thing for me. Especially up at Oli, where the wind can be a little light, so I'm kind of contemplating a Flysurfer. A big one as I have a weight problem.

I have this scenerio, like the mirror video, of a warm night up at the North Beach, water's like glass, sun's down, full moon's out, just enough wind to get up, got a nice buzz going and the universe is beautiful. Oh, yeah, and I'm naked, grooving along out there, with the stereo in my truck turned WAY up so I can hear it...

And then the cops arrive and it kind of skitters off the rails from there, but you get my drift...

Been reading about flysurfers and they seem the way to go for light wind but some reviews have said it's a little difficult to fly. Water launch? Depower? Et cetera.

Comments on Flysurfer experience? I've seen a couple flying up there and know a guy who bought one and was really pleased with it.


SweetDoug

Hey Doug

I have a 12 meter Pulse 2, but have only flown it in the winter.
The set up for snow kiting is easy and fast, you just roll the kite out weigh down the trailing edge unwind the lines and go.
Relaunch on the ice is like most inflatables, except with the rear line tug which is nice in light winds.
It will fly and generate enough power to get me going well in less wind that my 14 meter Cabrhina Contra 3. Once it gets going it makes apparent wind and pulls well. I could ride on hard pack in 15 km/h winds fairly fast. No jumps though.
The other side of things is it doesn't handle gusts as well as inflatables do. You have to be on top of the depower a lot faster in gusts or it will yank you around a bit.
It jumps quite well with nice floaty jumps. I never really tried jumping very high because it will go quite high easily and I don't like going much higher than 10 feet on snow and ice. I meant to try it on the water but never did.
The reason I never tried in the water is because its a different setup to launch and I either never had the room or there was to much junk on the beach. If there is a lot of twigs and stuff it tangles in the bridle, which is massive. Whenever I went out it was just easier with my inflatables, but just because I'm used to them.
Olly definitely has enough room to launch one. I'm still not decided whether I like it or not, but I am looking for a speed 2 or 3 in 15 meter to try in light wind.

John

Hey Doug,

There is a lot a negativity it seems. I think some of the early models were monsters and that reputaion is hard for the foils to shake.

There are some thing that you have to do differently, lauching on the beach by yourself or landing, but the learning curve is not really all that steep and once you get it you should be trouble free. Most kites have their own little quirks, you are just trading LEI quirks for foil quirks. There are some great videos from Flysurfer on VIMEO (how-to's).
Setup and pack down is super quick, lauching is a breeze (unless you forget to close your vents, remember that Yosh?). They fly nice, maybe not the fastest, maybe not the whatever, bhah, bhah.....they are nice cruising kites without question.

^^^ ha ha ha yes i do!!!

see guys on them in the lighter wind... i have always been skeptical about them in the water.. i mean at least inflatables have air in them so they float and dont sink when they get swollowed by a wave!!
(unless your in big stuff and in real trouble and your kite is shredded)
i wouldnt think twice about using one in lighter air when the water isnt big... but once the waves started rolling i dont think i would do it!!! this is just me personally!!

Oh, to answer your questions (my experience).
Not difficult to fly.
Water relauch...almost by themselves, very fast, you can even easly walk out in the water and water launch them.
Depower, quite good when stationary. They like apparent wind, and once you get going sheeting out will increase your speed.
I will say that as I was learning mine I had a few hiccups, but have got it down pretty good now. I have never dumped it in any size of waves, but I understand it to be at similar risk of not relauching to that of a LEI, but unlikely to get shredded.
If you are looking for a lightwind kite, waves are not likely an issue.
I assure you if you put it in the water it can sit there for a loooooong time and still relaunch like a dream. Only once have I been unable to relaunch and it was a technique problem. Good kites if you like to tinker as you can tune them for different characteristics also.

First to qualify, I'm 190, fairly advanced rider, and almost exclusively ride strapless surfboards and skimboards. I always aim for waves, but flatwater "streetstyle" represents most of my time in Ontario. My quiver is a 6M/9M/12M Cult, and a 15M Speed3 (deluxe) Flysurfer.

Here's my "topics that matter" that anyone considering a flysurfer should know:

Cost:
Might as well get it out the way, they are EXPENSIVE... but the value is fair: extremely durable, will probably outlive 2 or 3 replacement LEI quivers, and it will turn a lot of "ho hum" days into "rip-roaring good times". But if you can't afford to drop 3K for a kite, then don't read any further.. .it will only depress you.

Stability:
This kite will fly in 3kts. For real. It will just park itself where ever you want and hang out all day if you let it. Combine that with relatively slow turning speed and you have a kite that is almost impossible to crash. Granted, you won't be going out on 3kt days, but on the 10kt days that suddenly lull to 5, while every other kite drops out of the sky, you're still flying high (and possibly even coasting in if you manage your momentum just right...). On the top end there is a monsterous amount of power, but depower is easy and I can personally account for riding comfortably in up to 20kts (a little sketchy landing in that kind of wind, so not exactly recommended, but point being it is manageable if/when the winds pick up).

Apparent Wind Speed:
Until you feel it, you just won't believe... This kite will enable you to travel much faster than the actual wind speed without moving the kite. I don't have a gps, so I can't say exactly how fast I've gone, but I can at least give you a fairly accurate estimate of OMG.

Fun Factor v. "Light Wind Machine":
Everyone has had days of sitting on the beach and watching a solitary silver arrow cruising across the water... so now you can be "that guy", making everyone else jealous, but I actually see that benefit as marginal. Here's the thing, unless you're the PBK guy (probably 130 pounds, 19M speed3, 160cm monster door) you're not going to be ripping in 7kt winds... it will be barely fun at best, and the "novelty" of riding when no else can will wear off pretty quick. The REAL advantage, in my opinion, is ripping on days when everyone else is working for it - marginal days become incredibly fun.

And the rest:
Relaunch is easy (although I've only ever had to do it twice, and one time I intentionally crashed just so I knew I could do it)

All the lines, bridles, etc, are overwhelming at first, but eventually it becomes second nature and it ~does become quicker/easier than inflatables, but not a lot.
Packs up small so it's great for travel.

And lastly, I went with the 15M for several reasons - it turns faster, you only lose a kt or two on the low end (v. 19M), gain more control on the top end, and of course it's cheaper, but saving $300 on a $3000 purchase is like splitting hairs so obviously the performance is what led me to my decision (maybe if you're over 200lbs, i guess start to think about the 19M, otherwise I wouldn't recommend it).

Hope this helps.

theBAG wrote:

QUOTE:
... but I can at least give you a fairly accurate estimate of OMG.

amazing line.

and true.


i'm personally not a big flysurfer fan, i've tried them, don't like how they feel (soft, mushy in the sky...blah) for how i ride, but having said that, they do work well if you're into that light wind shit...er stuff...

for me 17m c-kite (well it's a 14m nemi hp right now...) + skimmy = light wind fun. same diff if i used a flysurfer, but nothing really gets your frustrations out (FUCKING LIGHT WIND SUCKS WHY ISN'T IT FUCKING WINDY LIKE iKITE SAID SON OF A....) like pumping up a 17m

The Bag

Great post +1 for you.

Good stuff. Thanks for all of this.

I'm kind of kicking tires on a 19M. Any opinings on the 2 or 3 version? Is the 3 a big advance?

I can't justify a new one, so I'm sniffin' 'round for a used one.

I'm just thinking of those days up at Oli, where I find out way too much about your personal lives, and you mine, as we stand around... Waiting...

SweetDoug

The Speed 2 is quite different from the Speed 3. I am keeping my Speed 2 as it has a definite and clear advantage in the low end wind range, while the Speed 3 turns faster and is better for a bit more wind. I once was riding my Speed 2 staying upwind comfortably in marginal conditions (9kts or less) while PBK couldn't stay upwind with his Speed 3 (both 19m), even though I am 20kg heavier and obviously a kook compared to PBK. Bottom line is that a used Speed 2 is a great choice.
I love the Flysurfer esp in these warm summer days (how I miss them already....)

I had 104 water sessions in 2010, and used the SA19 in 30% of them.

Gunther wrote:

QUOTE:


I had 104 water sessions in 2010, and used the SA19 in 30% of them.

Wow Lucky bugger. I had between 20 and 30.

John

I have the SA 19 speed 2. It's a kite I love to hate. I've had some incredible sessions on it, like last year in Bahamas when the wind came up to 20kts+ and I was told I was jumping 45 feet (not sure I beleive it), all the way to a time last summer when it fell out of the sky into a clump of Lake Erie algae and I spent 4 hours picking seaweed out of the bridle. As long as you are moving on this kite, or there is enough wind to keep it in the sky it's amazingly stable, but I have had a number of times that it has fallen out of the sky due to lack of wind and it almost always bowties when it does that which means you are swimming back to shore (and usually pick up clumps of seaweed in the bridle along the way). So I'm not sure I believe the 3 kt claims, or, I'm doing something wrong. When the lines tangle it's a nightmare to sort out. On the plus side, the height and the hang time are unbelieveable and you can probably double your days in the summer here in Ontario with one (spring and fall it's not necessary). It has great range but when you reach the end of the range you know it, since it loves to generate apparent wind, but that's more than 20kts for me. It also takes a while to dial in after using a LEI due to the slow turning speed. Oh and you can't really use it to play in the waves on light wind days, as soon as you point the board at it, it wants to collapse.

all those reasons to hate are why i don't have one or ever will.


my lightwind solution - cable park. always there, always a great sesh.

All good stuff guys. I'm going to listen a little more and try to get some direction. Maybe I'll hold off a bit and try one out (Jones a little up at Oli next spring for a test and then see.) But I really like the idea of being able to go out in 6-10 kts.

And listen, I'm a little disturbed at the tone around here... Hate? Let me paraphrase that great philosopher... Stong words such emotions reveal. And such lousy kiteboarders no wonder you are! Fear at lack of wind leads to anger to the flysurfer! And anger leads to the hatred of the flysurfer and hatred leads to the suffering of the kiteboarder!

[video type=youtube][<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJeKS0gNz48?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJeKS0gNz48?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>]

Sorry. I'm such a jerk! I hope that video thing worked. (It's the yoda scene.)

Schaveety-pie!

Don't mean to get philosophical, but Doug is right.

These kite do push the kiting technology in new directions and open new markets. Simply put, progress is made. Maybe not perfect, but nothing is. All these little tweaks with this model or that get incorporated into other kites year after year, driving the industry forward.

Look at the new Epic Infinity...somebody sees light wind $$$ too.